Transcript: Ms. Konrad, Mr. Kneisel, and Dr. Laux on Learning, Growth, and Real-World Skills

What you're about to see is the Late Start Show, a student curated podcast that brings together curiosity, creativity, and a lot of initiative. With guidance from our faculty, these young men have built something that's entirely their own and it's become a really special part of life at university school. It's also a great example of what your annual fund dollars make possible, attracting, retaining, and developing incredible educators who say yes when students want to try something new. So thank you for your role in taking experiences like this from an idea to reality.

And with that, I will turn it over to the real stars of the show, Jack Nelson, Charlie Martin, and our wonderful faculty. Good morning. Welcome back to the show. We are here with University School Kindergarten lead teacher, longtime elementary educator, and one of the newest members of the lower school community, Ms.

Kimberly Conrad. How are you, Ms. Conrad? I am wonderful.

How are you, gentlemen? Doing well. It's great to have you here. So we like to start at the beginning on all of our shows.

When you were young, did you already picture yourself teaching someday, or did you have a totally different dream job that you thought you might pursue? When I was in first grade, I sat and I wanted to be that teacher. I wanted to be Miss Pat Canone and I looked at her, she shared like pictures and her world with us. I wanted to become her.

So from first grade on, yes, I did. You know, you were a teacher at the Euclid school system for nearly 24 years and then you came here in 2024. What made you take the leap into an all-boys independent school and what did you would be different maybe for you as a teacher in this new chapter? Okay.

I had a friend reach out to me, Alicia Bailey, who is our U.S. teacher, and she said, Kimberly, there's a position in kindergarten at U.S. And I went, okay. And I went, yeah, okay. So she was like, you have to come here.

You need to be here. So I researched. I asked lots and lots of questions. And I had lots of lots of wonderful answers from her.

I sat on it. And then I reached out to my other friend, Lisa Cummings, who I also worked with at Euclid for a very short time, but asked even more questions. And after her, I said, okay, this sounds really too good to be true. So I got online and I looked at our website and I just, I want to describe it like you open a shaken soda pop and it was just fizzy, fizzy, fizzy.

And I was like, oh my gosh, this is like me. So for example, I mean, to work with a motto as powerful as ours is, you know, responsibility, loyalty, consideration. And every time that you teach a young man, it ties back to that powerful motto. that drew me here. Secondly, I was like, you know, small classes.

Whoa, I was ready for like 32 little guy or little people. See, now I can finally say boys. For the longest time last year, I would say boys and girls and the boy, Miss Conrad. I'm like, I'm sorry.

But now I finally have it. So our boys, small class sizes, definitely. And then theme, like I saw, are you kidding me? to teach with theme and everything being like interconnected math science everything oh my goodness sign me up so that's where I'm what what drew me here one of the coolest things that we get from teachers are their first impressions some of the first ever interview day or maybe that first look at teaching a class of U.S. boys do you remember maybe that first day or that first I do I do. I was probably as nervous as I am now.

But, you know, the little guys. So I just remember my first impression, where my classroom is. It's located right by Linseth Hall. So, like, I was able to, like, peek out and see what was happening.

And I looked at it, and I said, oh, my, I was, like, pinching myself. I'm like, is this real? I, like, I didn't get choked up, but I was looking out the door, and, like, all of the parents were, you know, big smiles. and, you know, they're all like, you know, it's okay, like, honey, go have a great day. And I was like, what?

Like, where am I? So when the boys came in and I was like, I've never been to a school where adults shake children's hands. What a beautiful way to start your day with a handshake and a smile. That blew me away.

And then I think two words come to mind, warmth and kindness. and it when the boys came in they didn't know me I was brand new but here's me yeah hi and boys that didn't even know me good morning you know you know how you doing some shook my hand Wow so I mean I'm sure I can go on but like my and then I had a little boy who you know little boy he did not want to come in his I mean I'm talking leg hug did not want to come in and I thought okay this Conrad's gonna work her magic. So I went over to the little guy and I knelt down by him and I talked to him and he wasn't budget but we're gonna get him in so luckily I had you know my associate so we diverted him and came in and he was still crying. Fast forward until we only had half days so he made it through he did so great we said you know yeah you did it and sure enough I wasn't expecting this but the next day that little boy ran into our classroom and And then I was like, yes, success. That's awesome.

So I want to touch on some of those things you talked about. Number one, the small class sizes. I'm sure that's different and goes along with each boy being known and loved. So what does that change by how you can notice and respond to the children in the classroom?

I think, I mean, right away, I want to know and love these boys. So smaller class sizes definitely mean you can get to know them quicker. You can build those relationships much faster. and also too it allows the boys they're heard you're you know they're heard quicker so if you have a room of 23 you know and you do like one and it's little guys waiting until it's 23rd if you have 11 if you have 18 they don't have to wait as long and I also feel like like just that meaningful relationship quicker and you also can have those meaningful relationships with parents quicker as well you know the theme program is one of the things that really shows off at our school and I even remember some of the themes when I was in kindergarten. How do you really teach those themes and translate that Monday morning craziness into an actual unified theme throughout the year?

Okay, so I'm glad you asked that now because we are in the middle of our medieval castle theme. So the boys are so excited and I was just speaking to a few friends out in the audience earlier, you know, they're like very excited. So I mean like they're talking all the time and you know. So our theme, as we learn theme, and I'll just focus on this one since it's current, as we learn, we put their projects, the vocabulary that we're learning, and we create what we are teaching.

So slowly but surely, our classroom is going to look like a medieval castle. Last Thursday and Friday, we had some amazing parents, which I spy out there now, come in and help paint with the boys. And they had a complete, you know, a total blast. very fun so i mean i just think like we whatever we teach we put into the room and make it come alive the lower school also talks about play as something that is included in serious learning with the line you know every boy every day outdoors there's research that shows that this helps students and younger students develop their social skills as well as just develop in general when you hear the phrase play with a purpose what does that mean to you and how does that look whether that's their outdoor time or in the classroom? And again, I teach kindergarten, so I think we play all day, but the boys don't realize that we play and learn.

So I feel play with purpose. I'm going to kind of walk you through my day. So open explorations begins in the morning, and the boys have numerous areas in the room that they can go and play with. Some are the purpose here is creativity, or logical thinking, or fine motor or building with you know and i love this because sometimes you build something and it allows you to go oh i didn't build that base i mean they don't talk like this but i didn't build the base just quite right but it fell so critical thinking you know how can i redo this to build and then if you take it into academics um you know we play all day and learn so like we're using manipulatives we're using letters we're using sentence structure we're moving around words and and things like that in literacy.

In math, we're playing with cubes and other types of like counters and things like that, that the boys don't even realize that we're purpose is to learn. So I think it has a lot to do with kindergarten. Now you go to that part about partnering with the parents and caregivers at this age, especially when it might be a children's first full day school or even half day school experience. What makes that partnership work best in your opinion?

I think that I look at it as like a circle of care. I think that we have to work together as parents with teachers and the child to make it all work. So, I mean, communication is key. You know, if a parent emails us, and again, the loveliness of being in the lower grades, we have an associate teacher.

So if something comes through, we can answer it immediately. And I feel that, again, communication, we don't just do that through emails. We do it through our letters. We have, I'm sorry, our weekly newsletters.

We also have a band app that the parents, and again, kindergarten, we are snipping pictures left and right, and we put those on bands so they can see what we're doing. Again, communication and email a call. Or I think even better, like I said, we had parents come in. So like, I want them, like they love to be involved.

I want them involved too. And again, I want the little guy to see that mom, dad, my teachers, caregivers, nannies, whatever, we're all on the same page and it's that circle of care. Now, what's one social skill that you teach explicitly to kindergartners? Because it's such a developmental time.

So what's one skill that you make sure that they know? to narrow it down to one I can do that I think one of the most important ones and it a life skill is what do I do Now mind you we five Now some of us are six What do I do when I get mad? I teach them how to self-regulate. Some are better at it than others, but I give them strategies how to do that and they're five so I say you know smell your flower blow out your candle and we take a break and we move or sometimes that doesn't happen or we just have to count and the key thing about all of these strategies and there are more but I model them so like I'll say to my associate okay here it comes and I'll be like oh gentlemen it's too loud in here and they're like smell your candle blow out or smell your flower blow out your candle. Yep, will you help me do it?

So I feel like modeling and showing them it doesn't just work for them, but it works for adults as well. I think that's important. Now you spend your days with five-year-olds, the most honest people on earth arguably. If you could teach one lesson from kindergartners to older students or any of the adults in the room, what would you teach?

Something that you've learned from them? I feel that an important skill that we all need to maybe revisit is the active and sincere apology. And when you are five and you need to say I'm sorry for a mistake or something that you did, that's not always easy. It's an uncomfortable situation.

But I teach the boys that it is absolutely okay to make a mistake, and that's how you learn. So it's not that, you know, you don't be shameful or anything like that, but it's that sincere. You know, I just had it the other day. You know, like, you say your side, you say your side.

Okay, how can we fix it? Those are my words. If you ask boys, my boys, fix it, fix it. How do we fix it?

And they can tell you. And if they don't, I, of course, help them. But then, you know, we do the handshake. We do the look in the eyes.

And then, you know, they're five. Okay, I'm done. We're good. But I think, you know, I think everybody needs to maybe sharpen that skill.

Well, Ms. Conrad, you've taught many different areas of education, served a public school community, and then made a professional lead to lead kindergarten here inside a lower school that's intentional about play, relationships, and being outdoors every day. You've seen what kids need at the very start of their school lives, and you've chosen to keep showing up for their work. So we'll end how we always end.

What is your why? What is it at the deepest level that keeps you coming back to teach kindergarten year after year? I think it's one word. Well, a couple.

It's my passion. I think I was put on this earth to be a teacher, and I am so honored and thankful that I now can do that here at U.S. Well, Ms. Conrad, it's been great having you on this show today.

Thank you so much for taking the time to share your insights and experience with us. And to our listeners, thank you for tuning in, but be sure to stay with us for just one more second, as we have the second installment of our three-part live annual fun podcast featuring Mr. Kniesel. Good afternoon.

Welcome back to the show. We are here today with Mr. Keith Kniesel. A middle school math teacher, soccer coach, and somebody who has already made a pretty strong impact on a university school in a pretty short amount of time.

How are you doing today, Mr. Kneisel? I'm doing well, thank you. Mr.

Kneisel, welcome to the show. Thank you. Thank you for doing this live. How are you feeling and what's going through your mind as you're sitting here knowing that there are students, parents, and alumni here in this audience?

I couldn't be more happy to be here. I was very honored to have been asked by you all until I did realize that all of the eighth grade and sixth grade teachers are out of town on field trips. So there weren't a lot of choices you had left, but I'm still, I'm very pleased to be here. I'm very happy to be here.

Have you always been a middle school math teacher? And what drew you to university school in the first place? And what was it in 2023 that made you take that leap of faith? I took the scenic route to becoming a teacher.

When I first went to college back in the 90s, I started out in education, but I didn't like the way the classes were run. I didn't like, it felt like they were trying to just have photocopy teachers. So I left the education department and I got a degree in mathematics. And I worked in the business world for 15 or so years and just was not happy doing it.

I knew that some point I wanted to go back to teaching. The stars aligned that I was able to go back to school. And my goal was to have a teaching job by the time I hit 40. And the day after my 40th birthday, I got my first offer.

So I obviously, I failed miserably. But so it took me a while to get to teaching, but it was, and my wife's not here today. So I can say that was the best decision that I've ever made. Well, a lot of people in this room have been through that same decision making process choosing US for you it was a professional decision when you arrived here what were some of your first impressions of US boys all boys environment as a whole and from a teacher's perspective what immediately felt different from some of your previous actually my first interaction with university school was not as a teacher it was actually as a soccer referee decades ago I refereed soccer and I came I had was assigned to a game here at us and I'm following the directions and they say go past the school and go down this road and I'm going down this road and more far the field can't be here I finally found the fields so my first interaction with us was actually was actually refereeing at a high school game and I remember just being impressed by the maturity of not only the players but the fans as well that they seem like quality people and I was I was pleased anytime that I got reassigned to this so the reason I actually came to the job here which I I think part of the question, the first question, I might've missed that part.

I wasn't actually looking to come here. I had been teaching at Garfield Heights, which is about five miles as the crow flies from here. I've been teaching there for about 15 years, but my son had just graduated college and he had a degree in education too. He's now, I'm a fourth generation, he's a fifth generation teacher now, but he was having some difficulty finding things.

So we're looking for jobs for him as well. And I came across an opening that would fit me. I was like, well, okay. So with no real intent of anything actually coming from it, I threw together an application, and it took about three weeks to get through the interview process and get hired.

So it was a very whirlwind experience for me, but nothing that I was planning. It just kind of, again, the planets aligned, and everything kind of fell into place, and I could not be happier to be here. You're teaching a pretty interesting moment because the middle school had just moved into the Madsen Hall for the 2025-2026 year. There are new classrooms, renovated labs, the commons, makerspace, and library that even we haven't seen.

So what changed in your teaching life the most once you stepped into that newly made space? Well, first of all, it's very easy to teach there because everything has been designed with a purpose. Every square inch of that floor plan has a design, has a purpose. The hallways are nice and wide.

There's meeting areas for the students to go. So you can definitely tell a lot of thought went into that floor plan. But honestly, this is my third year here. That's my third classroom that I've been in.

When I first started, I was in what was lovingly called the fish bowl. I don't know if you remember what the fish bowl from there. So I was in that room. But then after six months, they started to tear down that building and moved us out to the pods.

And I'd been in the pods for a year and a half. So I've barely been in the new building for even a year. So it's hard to compare to what other things were like. but you can definitely tell that the building was made with a purpose and we're making use of it as best we can. They just had to wait until Charlie and I were out of here.

That's right, yeah. They did say that. Well, in middle school, math can really be a make-or-break moment for a lot of students, their confidence in math. And some students come in already thinking, you know, I'm just not a math student.

How do you approach that mindset and maybe start to chip away at it and you make math feel real for them? Do you make some connections to real world scenarios such as sports or money? How do you chip away at that already preconceived? decision well my my philosophy is a math teacher is I use an analogy of Solving a math problem is like taking a walk through the woods You have a starting location you have an end that you're trying to get to but there's many paths that you can take and I think I'm not patting myself on the back too hard But I think a lot of teachers try and teach everyone one way to solve a problem where I try and get the students to understand, we can slow things down a little bit, try and get them to understand the concept behind the math that we're doing and try and lead them on a different path. And some paths are easier and some are quicker.

Some students need to take the longer path to get a problem done. It might take a few extra steps, but if they understand what the steps are. So by breaking down the problem into smaller problems, I think that helps me with the students that might be struggling. You know, you also coach soccer.

And as we heard earlier, you also referee soccer too. When did coaching become a part of your life as an educator? And what do you think coaching lets you do that teaching the classroom just can't? Well, I've been coaching a lot longer than I've been teaching.

So it wasn't that teaching led me to coaching. It might have been the other way around as well. So for me, coaching is just another way to connect with the boys and to let them see another side of us. It's important that the boys understand that we're not just the teacher that's in the room, that we do have a personality.

Some of us have personalities. We try. But it lets them see us from a different angle and lets us see them from a different angle as well. So I've always been a soccer coach.

It's the only sport I play. It's the only sport I know. And I'm very pleased to be able to help that out at U.S. as well. But I think it just lets me connect with the boys in a different way and let them see me outside of the classroom.

And I think it kind of eases the tension sometimes when they're saying the math is getting a little rough. Well, we have to ask this question. You know, it's become pretty legendary, especially I know about it because my brother Kate has had you in class. The Mountain Dew Stack.

Can you tell us a little bit about what that is, where it started, and what it does for the kids? So in the new classroom, we have these beautiful shelves on the back of our classroom. And all the other teachers have these lovely photographs and all these inspirational quotes and all these wonderful things. And I had nothing to fill my shelf with.

And the first day of school, I just, I had a can of Mountain Dew, which I'm not a health teacher, I'm a math teacher. And I put it up on the shelf just and then the second day again I not a coffee drinker I had another can of Mountain Dew I said okay all right So I put it on the shelf on top and I stacked it up And then within a month later now I got 20 cans over there I'm like, okay, this is going to happen. And none of the administrators said, take that down. So let's see how long we can make this happen before I get in trouble with this.

And I told you, 163, was it? 163 cans are up there right now. And the students enjoy it. They like to figure out, like, every now and then I put a special can up in the tripod. What's special about today?

I had a special can for day 100. There's special cans going up right now for field trip days. But it's nothing that I had, like, a genius, oh, I'm going to get a timeline out of this. I just put some cans up there, and it just kept growing and growing.

I actually made my students do a math problem one day of how many cans could I fit in the entire classroom, and what year would it be when I finished it. and it turned out it would there's you could fit 350,000 cans of Mountain Dew in the room and it would finish up just before the year 4,000 so I don't think I'm going to actually finish that goal but uh yeah so it was it was just something that happened organically and the kids enjoyed it so I just kept putting them up there and they have asked do have I drunk every can that's up there and I have not every day sometimes I double up on the weekends but yeah every can that's up there went through me at some point. It's a perfect lead-in cut to something, honestly, much deeper. How do you balance being warm, approachable, a middle school teacher, while still holding a high bar, especially in middle school, where kids test every boundary? Right.

I think what drew me to middle school in the first place was that's where I was most miserable when I was at school. And it wasn't through any, I'm not putting blame on my parents, on my teachers, on anything. It's just that was those were the years when I seemed to enjoy things the least and I thought maybe I can Switch some of that around for some other kids maybe for some of my students I can be the teacher that can come in and have a good time while still teaching Can do little quirky things like putting 168 cans of Mountain Dew on the shelf, but still find a way to connect that I think again I'm not trying to do a sob story. Nothing was wrong with my life at the time It's just if I think back those are the years when I was the least happy So I thought maybe I can be a teacher that can teach as well as entertain and can, you know, try and lift kids' spirits if I see they're not having the best day.

For a second here, can you talk to the adults? Because, you know, we've been middle school boys before. It's a weird time. But what's one misconception do you think parents or maybe even some other teachers have about how middle school boys learn?

And what's your counterpoint based on what you've seen every day at U.S.? That's a good one. I do like that question. One thing that I think coming in as someone that hasn't been here for a long time and as someone that I've taught at Garfield Heights, which was not a very high performing school, is that we still need to remember that the boys here, although they have talents, they're very special, they've had a lot of opportunities, they're still boys. and the math I teach, the math that we teach at the middle school, all boys are elevated by one year.

So as an eighth grade teacher, I'm teaching what would be anywhere else a freshman level math course and I've got sixth, seventh, and eighth graders in that class. And I try and remember that even though they're at this high level of math, there's still sixth, seventh, and eighth graders inside. And that sometimes you've got to watch how hard you're pushing. You've got to make sure you've got to give them the time to get things done.

You've got to give them that space to make mistakes. And so I think sometimes we forget because of how exceptional they are and how they're performing. One of my students is performing a piano recital that he wrote in Vienna, but he's still a sixth grader and I can't expect him to be every part of his life to be at the ninth grade level where my math is. So I've got to try and find that balance of giving them the education that they need, but still remembering that they have a lot of growing up to do still.

Last question, and once again, we want to end the way that we always do, especially because your path has layers. They're at becoming a teacher, stepping into a new community, coaching, teaching through a major building transition, and showing up for kids and each that can be amazing and chaotic at the same time. When you wake up on a tough morning, when you're tired, when a lesson just didn't land or a joke yesterday, or when you know that a student is maybe struggling, what is your why? What keeps you coming back, and what do you hope your work ultimately does for the boys that you get to teach?

At the age I'm approaching, sometimes my why feels more like a how, but the why is definitely because this is what makes me feel good. This is what helps complete my life. And sometimes you've got to be a bit selfish about it. And I know that I'm doing good things for the kids, but this career choice has done wonders for me.

And it's really allowed me to be the person that I think I was born to be. and so if I can be selfish about it, the why is because doing this makes me happy. Helping the kid, knowing that I'm helping these kids learn things, helping these kids get through this portion of their life, it brings me joy. And I think that if it brings me happiness, that helps me spread that to the students as well. Well, Mr.

Kniesel, it's been a pleasure having you on the show. Thank you so much for taking the time to share insights and experiences with us. And to our listeners, thank you once again for being on the Late Start Show, but we're not done yet, as we have our last and final segment with Dr. Lacks.

Good afternoon. Welcome back to the show. We are here with University School Science Chairperson, former Director of Science Research and Outdoor Projects Advisor, Dr. Sarah Lacks.

How are you, Dr. Louts? I'm good. I'm really good.

It's good to have you on the show. It's very fun. I'm very excited to be here. A lot of people love nature, including myself, but not many people choose to devote their life to setting ecosystems.

What was that turning point for you where you thought, this isn't just a hobby, maybe I want this to be my path? That's a good question. Like all, not all, but a lot of little girls, right? I just wanted to be around animals.

I loved animals. I wanted to be outside. My dad was a big influence on that. I would, he and I would go hike around and count how many hawks we saw on any given day.

And I wanted to be outside. I like being active. I kind of am that girl that was dirty in the dirt all the time and hiking in a creek. And so naturally, my thought was, oh, I'll be a vet.

When you're young, that's, you like animals, you're going to be a vet. So I had that in my mind for a long time. I went to my undergrad and I was advised. to take some classes in the natural resource department and i really realized that you can make a career of studying animals and being outside and the more i learned about how interconnected everything is the more interesting it became um but i'm not gonna lie there was a little bit of a allure to this this idea this wanderlust idea right just like i'm just gonna be this free spirit i'm gonna hike i'm gonna camp i'm gonna just live out in a tent for a couple weeks i'm going to study animals i'm going to carry a backpack and have all the cool equipment and all the field gear and the more i got into it the more i realized that's a career like you can like live in a backpack with a tent and call it work by counting some animals and talking to some people and and really understanding what's going on and making a difference so um it became a career choice when I realized that I can actually like play and learn at the same time and um so that's how I got into it and then when I learned how interconnected everything is it's addicting it becomes really powerful to see how interconnected everything is and how small our little part is um it just keeps you wanting to come back for more well let's go to your teaching you've been teaching at us since 2009 literally the year that you were born which means you're building a teaching career while also still finishing this PhD. What originally brought you to university school and what do you remember about some of those first impressions of a 2000s and kind of 2010s community?

Yeah, well I love this question. I'm going to be honest, it was avoidance. I just finished up my field work, had to sit down and actually analyze some data and sit in a lab. I studied, I'm a mammologist at heart, wildlife girl, and part of my research was looking at the impact of overabundant deer on the forest floor community, which included all of the little creepy crawly invertebrates that lived on the forest floor.

I'm not joking when I said I had tens of thousands of preserved forest floor invertebrates, insects in a jar that I had to sit in a microscope and identify not really something I wanted to do after spending my whole summer hiking around the National Park and the Metro Parks and so I was a little bit in an avoidance not really happy with my life choices at the moment and I saw an advertisement at Cleveland State for a three-month maternity leave sub here and I thought huh that can't be that hard I could teach for three months I'm still doing something productive with my life and I'll get back to it after that. I also was a grad student who rode horses, so the salary, although, you know, not huge for a grad student, really helped pay for my horse habit too. So it killed two birds with one stone. I loved it.

So I was like, yeah, it can't be that bad. 17 years later, here I am. I'm still here. But what I loved about the place, geez, I'm telling you, the energy in this building was amazing. The students, I knew, I've always liked interacting with high school-aged students.

I knew it would be easier to interact with young men than young women, just because sometimes young women can just be a little difficult in my own experience. So I was looking forward to that. I just didn't realize how much energy would be in the building. Also, the faculty.

The faculty energy here is amazing. Very first thing, though, the thing that got me hooked, realizing that, huh, maybe I want to stay here, was the opportunity. I had been here, I don't know, three weeks, four weeks, and my colleagues at the Cleveland Metro Parks, they're like, hey, we're going to make you look really good. We're going to give you a little bit of money to put some deer exclosures up on your campus and make an impression I came to the end I was like okay yeah great we continue some dear research here on this beautiful campus and um at the same time we were talking about this idea of a bio blitz of like let's get all the students outside and look at all the animals and all the plants and let's just spend a day out there and let's just let's just make this happen and i was like oh this is great um it was literally a knock on a door to at the time steve murray and Bill O'Neill and I said hey I got a little bit of funds I want to do some some projects here I want to get the boys involved mind you I'm still just a three-month maternity leave sub and they're like sure great let's do it and I'm like oh yeah by the way I really want to do a bio blitz and I remember distinctly Bill O'Neill's like I don't know what that is but sure um so the opportunity just amazing and it's been like that ever since so um yeah grateful I made this jump let's talk about this campus is a classroom idea.

The Honey Valley campus is more than 220 acres. U.S. publicly documents coyote research with the Cleveland Metro Parks and Ohio State, including GPS collars and infrared cameras that students can learn from. There's also been then a student-led beach leaf disease assessment at University School in collaboration with Hiram College. What excites you about students taking on problems like that where the stakes are real and the answers aren't already known?

Well, you just said it. The stakes are real and the answers aren't known. I get excited when I don't know the answer to something. And so it's easy for me to teach others when I'm also excited.

I hope the boys feel that. But what I've seen in the classroom when we are asking real world questions that actually matter, it becomes less about the grade and more about the pride in their work that they're doing. You know, I've seen students who cannot organize a notebook for the life of them. You know, it's constantly since freshman year, like, here's your three-ring notebook.

Why are all your papers here when they belong here? But that same kid I'll have a year later in a class of mine or just working with outdoor projects who is keeping the most meticulous notes in a field notebook because they know someone else is going to look at it. And they don't see it as a class necessarily. They see it as their job.

And so it's really exciting. You led the science research program for 16 years and are still very involved in that. Cleveland is such a strong hub for science and medical research, from Cleveland Clinic to UH and the NASA Glenn. So how do you help students take advantage of being in a city like this and really take their research from just being interested in science actually seeing some real-world paths that they can pursue?

Well, first of all, my job has been so easy in some respects because of where we're at. And many of you in this room who have helped tremendously find and nurture and cultivate opportunities for the boys. So they don't always realize how lucky they are, I think. I don't always realize how lucky we are to be where we're at, to have the opportunities. but we have them and I think what this was an interesting question I had to think about this one for a little while I think what I hope to have had instilled and I hope to still instill in them is they're doing something real they're asking a real question but I try as hard as I can to learn as much about what it is they're doing and take pride in their work and be interested in their work so that that emulates back in their research lab that they're doing or whatever, whoever they're working with, so that it feels to them that this actually really matters.

And it's not just an internship that is checking off a box for a college or the research program. They take pride in it. Science can be intimidating. Sometimes you can do everything right and still get unexpected results as you know from our AP bio labs.

At the same time real discovery requires taking risks and asking questions that might feel dumb. How do you build a science culture where students can stay confident and keep on asking those dumb questions while also feeling safe to take those kinds of risks daily? Well they see me every day who are sometimes asking the dumb questions and not always succeeding in even what I'm teaching in the classroom. But what's interesting is every story of every scientist or entrepreneur or anyone who's taking a risk, it never worked well the first time.

So what I try, especially with the research program and in class, but I have more time with the boys when they're working outside of the classroom, I try to instill in them what they're doing now, what they're talking about, what they're presenting at a science fair, what they're presenting in a classroom is a snapshot of what they're doing. It's not their final project. It's not their final product. It's not their final experience as a scientist.

And so with that mindset, I try to instill in them, hey, go talk to as many people as you can. This is what you're doing right now. and you're going to learn something from them. They're going to learn something from you, but you're going to keep going when you come back, and you're going to be better for it. So by sending them out there, talking to people with, this is just what I'm doing at this snapshot moment, and they're not being judged as a final product, then I think it alleviates a little bit of that stress, and maybe they feel like they can make some mistakes.

The stakes are still there, and they know it, but I'm proud of them when they go out there and take these risks. We are so very lucky to have this beautiful campus outside. One big part of that is Lake Kilroy. So when you see students out on their canoeing or exploring the woods around, what excites you about seeing students outside and being able to apply the things they're learning in the classroom to that outdoor environment?

Well, honestly, I'm just glad they're outside. sometimes I wish some days maybe not when there's paddles at the bottom of the lake and flipped canoes and sometimes students in the lake but I'm just glad they're outside and exploring so do I want them to learn something every time they're outside absolutely but really I just want them to be outside and connected with being outside because if they don't experience outside they're never gonna ask any questions about it. So really, anytime they're outside, just enjoy it and maybe think a little less. I will remember I was interviewing to be a naturalist after my undergrad and they had set this beautiful picture of a fall landscape on the screen and they said to me, what would you say if you were leading a group? And so I'm putting on like my student hat and my scientist hat and I'm like, oh well these different pigments are coming out in the leaves and all this science about the leaves changing color and he said, yeah no you're not going to say that.

You're going to say sit back and enjoy the scenery and take it all in and that has stuck with me. So yeah when I see boys outside and on the lake sometimes I just want them to enjoy it. Last question, our tradition. You lived a life that moves from studying wildlife and ecosystems to earning a PhD to teaching and mentoring students to building a science culture that uses the outdoors to develop stewardship and curiosity.

When you wake up in the morning and choose to do this work, again teaching, leading, mentoring, and pushing students to grow, what is your why? So I love this question. I actually had to write it down because there was so much to it but i'm not going to read it um my first instinct on my why is would i do it again yes why would i do it again immediately i'm like i'd do it to do it better right i would be able to come at it more from an educator perspective um not my wildlife biologist perspective um you know i'd build better labs better research program better relationships with students um That's not really a good why. The more I thought about it, the more I realized that in all of my training as a wildlife biologist in school and in practice for the short period that I actually worked in the field that I went to school for, I learned really fast that it's not about the animals.

It's not about the wildlife. It's not about the ecosystems and conserving a habitat. It's about the people. If you can't get someone interested in understanding why I care and why they should care, they're not even going to listen, let alone act.

And so what I've realized over the years, educators are the same thing. It is not about the content. It's not about, well, it is a little bit about EP Bio, but it's not about EP Bio. um or the cell cycle or photosynthesis but it is in like two weeks but um it's the why it's the why you should care and it's how you interact with people and if you can get somebody to truly genuinely listen and care even for a half a minute or part of a class that's that's the education to me so um i've always had friends ask why are you still teaching this isn't what you set out to do but it is it was working with people and building communities and getting people to understand so that's my wife well dr locks it's been great having you in the show thank you so much for taking the time to share insights and experiences with us thank you to all of our guests who have joined us today miss connor and mr kneisel and obviously dr laux um you're all part of what makes us such a special place to learn speak for charlie myself and all the students in the u.s community when i say we're so lucky to be a part of this community that emphasizes bringing in teachers that not only support us as students, but also as people. And I promise Mrs.

Kish to not tell us to say this, but speaking of support, your support for the annual fund is what makes it possible for us to have these wonderful teachers as mentors and role models. So we really appreciate it. And to our listeners, whether you've been in person with us or online, for the special annual fund live episode, thank you for being a part of this conversation and this community. It's been a privilege to have you on this ride with us.

And as always, we'll hope you'll join us next Wednesday for another episode of Late Start Show. Thank you, everybody. Thank you. This was fun.